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	<title>Comments on: State Cup 2008 Observations</title>
	<link>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/</link>
	<description>Observations, opinions &#38; other ramblings of a soccer referee</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 00:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: CSR</title>
		<link>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>CSR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 21:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-705</guid>
		<description>Tim,
Glad to hear from you.  I think the fine is only part of the story.  I do think it hurts to have to cough up $150-$250 in cash on demand.  But I think what hurts more is that if a coach gets dismissed/sent off, he "will not be permitted to participate with any team in any way for the rest of the competition." 

In this day and age, at the higher level clubs (esp clubs with lots of money) you'll often see coaches managing or otherwise involved with 3 or more teams.  If a coach is dismissed early on in the tournament, he can't participate with any of his other teams as well.  So if a coach loses his logical mind, all the other teams he coaches must then find a replacement for him.  That's a big deal - probably bigger than the fine. 

When I was at Regionals this past year, I had one middle.  I had to dismiss one of the coaches.  He persisted in badgering my 4th despite repeated requests to bring him back to reason.

I spent my early referee years in Indiana as well. . .1987-1989 and 1994-1996.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,<br />
Glad to hear from you.  I think the fine is only part of the story.  I do think it hurts to have to cough up $150-$250 in cash on demand.  But I think what hurts more is that if a coach gets dismissed/sent off, he &#8220;will not be permitted to participate with any team in any way for the rest of the competition.&#8221; </p>
<p>In this day and age, at the higher level clubs (esp clubs with lots of money) you&#8217;ll often see coaches managing or otherwise involved with 3 or more teams.  If a coach is dismissed early on in the tournament, he can&#8217;t participate with any of his other teams as well.  So if a coach loses his logical mind, all the other teams he coaches must then find a replacement for him.  That&#8217;s a big deal - probably bigger than the fine. </p>
<p>When I was at Regionals this past year, I had one middle.  I had to dismiss one of the coaches.  He persisted in badgering my 4th despite repeated requests to bring him back to reason.</p>
<p>I spent my early referee years in Indiana as well. . .1987-1989 and 1994-1996.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Mann</title>
		<link>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-704</guid>
		<description>I am part of OH-North now, but I spent my first nine years as an official in Indiana.  I didn't get an opportunity for state cup, but we still had lots of trouble in other tournaments with the same rules.  Sometimes, fines don't matter.  The kind of coach that gets sent off, typically lose their logical minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am part of OH-North now, but I spent my first nine years as an official in Indiana.  I didn&#8217;t get an opportunity for state cup, but we still had lots of trouble in other tournaments with the same rules.  Sometimes, fines don&#8217;t matter.  The kind of coach that gets sent off, typically lose their logical minds.</p>
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		<title>By: CSR</title>
		<link>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>CSR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 18:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-123</guid>
		<description>Alex&gt;  Thanks for checking back in!  A couple of points. . .

- In the "Lessons Learned" that MLS conducts each week for its referees (week 7 is at http://www.ussoccer-data.com/docfile/LessonsLearnedWeek_7_2008.htm) they have been hammering referees about irresponsible behavior in the technical area by team personnel (coaches, assistants, and substitutes).  For several weeks, they've been saying that the on-field referee teams have been far too lenient on bad bench decorum.  
- I think the rule about a sent off player being attached to the coach makes a ton of sense.  First, in youth soccer we simply can't risk sending a youth from the field to his own devices.  I have a very young son and I know if I were to send off a player who was then abducted during the match I couldn't live with myself.  Second, while we can't realistically send a player from the field area, the last thing I want is for him to cause further problems - a real possibility since he did something to get himself sent off in the first place.  Making the coach responsible for his behavior is one way to try to ensure the sent off player behaves himself.
- I'm not sure I was clear on the problem with the benches being so close to the field.  The fields had plenty of space between them, yet the coaches instinctively place their bench way too close to the field.  Coaches also seem to think it's their right to go right up to the touch line (and occasionally over) and a liberal distance left and right.  They have little concept of the proper size of the technical area.  The mechanics of an AR dictate that the AR NOT be on the touch line (for various reasons), rather a yard or so back.  As a result, an AR really needs about 2 yards back from the touch line - all the way down.  Many coaches are good about this and honestly try.  Other coaches seem to think they have a right to be right on the touch line and/or that an AR is trying to show them up (or something) by asking them to move back.  But virtually all are ignorant of the fact that the AR NEEDS this amount of space as an absolute minimum.  When I'm an AR, I'm trying to stay square to the field as much as possible.  So if I'm side-stepping or running, I'm looking at the field - not in the direction I'm running.  Especially as the games get older and faster, the last thing I should have to worry about is dodging a coach or substitute.  I believe it was during a semifinal, but this year we did have one instance of an AR being assaulted by a coach.  

If I had to change one aspect of OH South State Cup it would focus on the benches/coaches.    I think for the round-of-16 onward. . .
1) Make a defined technical area.  
2) Use a 4th official.
3) Crack down on irresponsible behavior in the technical area.
I mean they're playing for a berth to Regionals - where they can expect all three of those things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex>  Thanks for checking back in!  A couple of points. . .</p>
<p>- In the &#8220;Lessons Learned&#8221; that MLS conducts each week for its referees (week 7 is at <a href="http://www.ussoccer-data.com/docfile/LessonsLearnedWeek_7_2008.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ussoccer-data.com/docfile/LessonsLearnedWeek_7_2008.htm</a>) they have been hammering referees about irresponsible behavior in the technical area by team personnel (coaches, assistants, and substitutes).  For several weeks, they&#8217;ve been saying that the on-field referee teams have been far too lenient on bad bench decorum.<br />
- I think the rule about a sent off player being attached to the coach makes a ton of sense.  First, in youth soccer we simply can&#8217;t risk sending a youth from the field to his own devices.  I have a very young son and I know if I were to send off a player who was then abducted during the match I couldn&#8217;t live with myself.  Second, while we can&#8217;t realistically send a player from the field area, the last thing I want is for him to cause further problems - a real possibility since he did something to get himself sent off in the first place.  Making the coach responsible for his behavior is one way to try to ensure the sent off player behaves himself.<br />
- I&#8217;m not sure I was clear on the problem with the benches being so close to the field.  The fields had plenty of space between them, yet the coaches instinctively place their bench way too close to the field.  Coaches also seem to think it&#8217;s their right to go right up to the touch line (and occasionally over) and a liberal distance left and right.  They have little concept of the proper size of the technical area.  The mechanics of an AR dictate that the AR NOT be on the touch line (for various reasons), rather a yard or so back.  As a result, an AR really needs about 2 yards back from the touch line - all the way down.  Many coaches are good about this and honestly try.  Other coaches seem to think they have a right to be right on the touch line and/or that an AR is trying to show them up (or something) by asking them to move back.  But virtually all are ignorant of the fact that the AR NEEDS this amount of space as an absolute minimum.  When I&#8217;m an AR, I&#8217;m trying to stay square to the field as much as possible.  So if I&#8217;m side-stepping or running, I&#8217;m looking at the field - not in the direction I&#8217;m running.  Especially as the games get older and faster, the last thing I should have to worry about is dodging a coach or substitute.  I believe it was during a semifinal, but this year we did have one instance of an AR being assaulted by a coach.  </p>
<p>If I had to change one aspect of OH South State Cup it would focus on the benches/coaches.    I think for the round-of-16 onward. . .<br />
1) Make a defined technical area.<br />
2) Use a 4th official.<br />
3) Crack down on irresponsible behavior in the technical area.<br />
I mean they&#8217;re playing for a berth to Regionals - where they can expect all three of those things.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 16:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.columbussoccerref.com/state-cup-2008-observations/2008/05/18/#comment-122</guid>
		<description>That is really interesting about the fines for coaches.  I know in our larger clubs here in town if a club coach was sent off at State Cup he or she is probably also losing their job or at least close to it. The idea of a player being attached to the coach after send off is something I have seen for sometime in basketball.  Any situation on the bench handled as if the coach was the issue.

I am shocked to hear the field set up is so tight that teams are on top of the sideline.  Did you have room to have the benches move back.  

Great post keep it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is really interesting about the fines for coaches.  I know in our larger clubs here in town if a club coach was sent off at State Cup he or she is probably also losing their job or at least close to it. The idea of a player being attached to the coach after send off is something I have seen for sometime in basketball.  Any situation on the bench handled as if the coach was the issue.</p>
<p>I am shocked to hear the field set up is so tight that teams are on top of the sideline.  Did you have room to have the benches move back.  </p>
<p>Great post keep it up.</p>
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